Darksiders? - Honda CTX1300 Forum
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#1 Old 08-28-2014, 11:20 AM
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Darksiders?

Hey wondering if anyone here Darksdes or knows anyone who Darksides? For those who don't know Darksiding is the practice of riding with car tires on the bike (usually in the rear). Supposedly they see increased tire longevity as well as better wet weather traction...

Tales From the Dark Side: Putting Car Tires on Motorcycles | Rider Magazine
No Fixed Abode: The dark side of unintended consequences. | The Truth About Cars


I know this can be a passionate subject so lets keep it clean
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#2 Old 08-28-2014, 11:21 AM
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There was one member who immediately did that, even advertised the OEM tyre for sale Can't remember the username now, though.

@Dexter

1997 Yamaha Virago XV535 blue/white (gifted to my brother when I left the country, photo)
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#3 Old 08-28-2014, 11:26 AM
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I think it was kniterider that switched out his rear tire for a car tire.
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#4 Old 08-28-2014, 02:26 PM
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I've not tried it on the CTX, but generally I'm not a big fan of car tires on bikes. They don't handle the twisties anywhere near as nicely as a real bike tire does. The beads are different. I've never trusted them to stay on at full lean.

I've known folks who run them for many many miles on Gold Wings with no issues. I guess if you ride a lot of interstate miles it would be OK. My Dad once had a Harley with car tires. It was actually quite nice on gravel.

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2014 Honda CTX1300 Deluxe "Red"
2014 Honda CTX1300 Deluxe "Blue"
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#5 Old 08-28-2014, 03:51 PM
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I got rid of that MC tire at 985 miles,,, Needed the added security in heavy rain and heavy loads neither of which that syock rubber band will do. Bridgestone drive guard makes exact size replacement.. I now have over 7000 miles on my CT and I handles like a dream especially in bad roads. load capacity is over 600 pounds better than the stock more expensive MT By the way My stock front car tire cupped out and had to be replaced in el centro cali,, less than 6000 miles into the adventure
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#6 Old 08-28-2014, 10:23 PM
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I've always wanted to do this (yes, wanted) because pretty much all my driving is interstate or straight roads. Yet there are 0 places around me that either stock a tire for it, or will mount a car tire on a motorcycle rim.
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#7 Old 09-04-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kniterider View Post
I got rid of that MC tire at 985 miles,,, Needed the added security in heavy rain and heavy loads neither of which that syock rubber band will do. Bridgestone drive guard makes exact size replacement.. I now have over 7000 miles on my CT and I handles like a dream especially in bad roads. load capacity is over 600 pounds better than the stock more expensive MT By the way My stock front car tire cupped out and had to be replaced in el centro cali,, less than 6000 miles into the adventure
any photos of the tires on your CTX?
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#8 Old 09-07-2014, 09:18 PM
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Was reminded this weekend on my trip to the Davis Rally (where a LOT of GW and HD riders camp) why I haven't ever been interested in going to the Dark Side. The topic came up around the campfire by one of the other campers who was noting someone who had a CT on the rear. I was just listening.
I remember being told a long time ago that changing one tire from the designed type of tire will negatively affect the other tire. Most in this group who have tried and came back from the Dark Side on the rear realized a drastic reduction in life of the front tire and also added tire wear issues with the front. Most of the ST riders on that forum whom I know have mentioned the same issues. Some think buying a few extra front tires with a very long lasting rear saves them money but when there's not that much difference between front and rear mc tires and you buy 4-5-6 front tires for each CT that savings swings the other way. My experience on a bike like this (not enough miles yet obviously on this bike) is both tires will last me 16000 to 20000 miles. So regardless how long the CT lasts I'd be buying three front tires in 20000 miles vs one pair of f/r mc tires. If the CT lasts 50000 miles that would be about 7 front tires for each CT. In 50000 miles I normally would only be 2 pair of mc tires and half way through a third. Unless that CT is really cheap the cost is more with the CT. I like my mc tires lasting longer and just shop for a really good price for them.

/bob
prior and current bikes:
1973 Harley Davidson 125 dual sport- sold
1997 Kawasaki Vulcan 750- sold
1990 Honda Gold Wing GL1500- sold at major profit
2005 Suzuki Burgman 650- traded
1998 Honda ST1100- sold
2014 Honda CTX1300A (U.S.A. Ion Blue Deluxe)-sn: 489- primary transportation
2003 Honda Metropolitan CHF503 (wife's ride)
flickr photos of CTX1300A
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#9 Old 09-10-2014, 09:26 AM
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I tried several different tire combos on my last two wings over the 80,000 miles I had them on the road. The stock M/C tire combo went quickly,, front tires never lasted more than 12,000 miles if treated gingerly and perfect tire pressure monitoring. Now I almost always rode my wings heavy up... loaded to the max. on long LD trips. 5.5 gal aux tank on back seat, duffle bags on top of the tank. all bike bags filled to max. Trailer hitch with the 30 inch wide rivco cargo carrier filled. I had rear tire failure at highway speed. I succeeded in bringing it safely to a stop. Luckily I was on another solo trip, so wife was not with me,,if so it would have been her last ride I am sure. That experience got me thinking hard about poor tire options for our 1000 pound machines. I checked and even the best M/C tire only has a about a 750 pound load capacity. And all the M/C tires collapse quickly when air pressure is lost quickly. I researched thru the accident data bases that I have access to and found NOT one incident where an single vehicle M/C accident was attributed to a car tire as the aggravating cause to the incident. FOUND numerous listings for M/C tire failures as listed cause for loss of control of motorcycle prior to collision though.
Jump forward,,, researched the appropriate tires for my wing decided on the Michelin alpin run flat.. mounted it with centramatics balancer. took it home LET all the air out of it and road it around the area for about 20 minutes. Realized I would definitely need a real TPMS , NOT the junk idiot light from Honda. because the rear tire handled so well flat, that I would destroy it before I realized I had a problem. That first Alpin made it to 37,000 miles before I was run off the road and the bike totaled in May of 2014. That bike was taken down the Tail of the dragon earlier with an E-3 on the rear and then again with the Alpin. YES if you are not an experienced rider you might feel a little disconcerted on the switchbacks. but it just takes more imput on your part to get same amount of turn. That slight change was worth the added safety for me and my wife,, especially my wife in the event of a major tire puncture and loss of air support.
So yes I used to be a believer in the old wives tales about how I would crash and burn if I did switch to a car tire,, ie. bead popping off the rim , SPOKEN by only those who have never tried to remove a car tire from a m/c rim. Plus look at load capacities E-3 about 780 pounds Alpin 1450 pounds.
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#10 Old 09-10-2014, 10:49 AM
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Never said anything about any "wives tales" or rear tire failure causing a crash. The vast majority of rear tire loss of air that I've experienced/heard/read about did not result in any crash but just an immediate need to pull over and take care of it, regardless what tire was back there. Had this happen to me personally. So naturally you won't hear of any c/t on the rear causing a crash since the c/t is obviously less likely to fail on a mc than an mc tire. Not saying a rear mc tire fail won't cause a crash, just not so common. Also, you will naturally find numerous listings of mc tire fails causing a crash since if there is a c/t on the rear and the front mc tire fails resulting in a crash it would be reported as a mc tire failure cause. Anyway, my only point is that mc tires are engineered to work together front and rear and the front will likely wear faster, I didn't say it would guaranteed fail, with a c/t on the rear. There may possibly also be odd tire wear patterns on the front in this case. I consider cupping an odd tire wear pattern that should be resolved with some form of adjustments to pressure, front steering bearings, alignment, etc. Again, IF the front tire fails as a result it would be reported as a mc tire failure. It would also be an indication that the rider might not be paying (enough) attention to his/her tire wear (obviously you do pay attention to it). Obvious instances of road hazards excluded there. Another thing... whenever I have heard of a tire of any kind popping off the rim (mc, car, truck, etc) it's not about the bead coming outside the rim, which I know is really a tight fit and unlikely especially with a c/t, but rather the bead falling to the INSIDE toward the center of the rim, which is easy with any tire with no air pressure to hold it out. If this happens and travel on that tire continues very far it may possibly be worked outside the rim after the fact due to side forces and extreme weight of the vehicle on a flat tire. So that argument is moot. I know that run-flat tires don't normally have this issue if at all since they are designed to hold up the vehicle weight without air pressure.

I cannot explain why you don't get the miles on mc tires that I do. I'm not an aggressive rider, but it sounds like you aren't either. You do tend to load your bikes more during LD riding but I would expect that would affect the rear more than the front. Only possibility I can think of might be an issue would be the cargo carrier putting significant weight behind the rear tire causing the front tire to be lighter on the road than normal. But then you would likely notice that in steering control right away so maybe not. I've never used a cargo carrier, but I have pulled trailers/campers with my GW and my ST. Those would present very different dynamics on handling and weight distribution, and tire wear, compared with a cargo carrier. Trailers only put 20-30lbs vertical weight within 12 inches of the rear tire. A cargo carrier would place more vertical weight farther behind the rear tire.

It's a trade off in the end. I know of many riders who use c/t on the rear of many different bikes. As long as the rider is watching the tire wear and air pressures all around it's up to the individual what they want their bike to have on the rims. I'd personally prefer to stay with buying 2 sets of mc tires in 35000 miles than buying one c/t and 5 front mc tires in that same miles. Of course this depends on how these tires wear for me.

/bob
prior and current bikes:
1973 Harley Davidson 125 dual sport- sold
1997 Kawasaki Vulcan 750- sold
1990 Honda Gold Wing GL1500- sold at major profit
2005 Suzuki Burgman 650- traded
1998 Honda ST1100- sold
2014 Honda CTX1300A (U.S.A. Ion Blue Deluxe)-sn: 489- primary transportation
2003 Honda Metropolitan CHF503 (wife's ride)
flickr photos of CTX1300A
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