[meerkat]

Hi all , I was just down to my favorite dealer today , and he told me that Honda was not going to put out a 2015ctx 1300 . He guested that they are not selling that grate right now , and they still have a over stock . I don't know if it's true or not . Sometimes I get some bad information from them . Only time will tell and that makes it good for us 2014 buyers . I know that this machine will catch on because it's that good .
Clint

 

[Tony]

My dealer on Friday also said that Honda would probably not sell a 2015 ctx1300, but might come back in 2016 with a ctx1300. Of course he said that it's hard to predict the future.

Tony

 

[bob]

Honda has been known to do that... skip years with some models.

 

[Miks]

I would hope Honda has someone that monitors these forums, to get a real feel of what the end user is thinking. In the aviation forums, especially when there are a lot of technical issues, I see regional managers posting comments to our "gripes and desires", and that feedback improves their product.

I recently took the bike out, after months of looking at it, and quite honestly it is one of the most refined bikes I have owned. The dash is modern and good looking, the bluetooth connects very easily, and the bike has a lot of character. I think Honda may have overproduced the bike, but once people see this bike on the road, the more interest it is getting. They really need to find a way to market the motorcycle to the experience rider (older like we are, right?), because that appears to be the buyer.

I think Honda should take a look at two CTX 1300 models for 2016...if it was me - and marketing is something that was very interesting in college, and it made me aware of Clyde Fessler - the MAN who put Harley Davidson on the map, Google him!

The first model is what we have now, low cut windshield, no top box, without a lot of frills. For example, they could have the bluetooth system as an option in all bikes, it would lower the cost and be the price leader for the purist type biker. This is the entry level price leader, and I think Honda could reduce the price and not have to put the huge rebates up.

The second model would be the touring version, tall windshield, top box, bluetooth, heated grips, and ELECTRONIC CRUISE CONTROL! I think that would be worth a $2,000 premium, and with both bikes, still you would have the flexibility to remove the top box, change windshields, etc.

If I am right on this, I think Honda is going to find they can start to release the 2016 early, as from what it appears on the forum, a lot of buying is going on with this model right now. Once people see this bike on the streets, more interest in the bike will occur, and riders will have to wait for the 2016's to be released.

How's that?

 

[Springer]

Once people see this bike on the streets, more interest in the bike will occur, and riders will have to wait for the 2016's to be released.

How's that?

It does appear there's a lot of positive interest on this forum (go figure). Having noted that, even the most complimentary reviews of the CTX always include a caveat (a very useless one in my estimation) that "this bike isn't for everyone." Well no sh....kidding.:tongue: Neither is a minivan or a Mercedes.

But looking through the smoke, the CTX seems to be a very polarizing bike, even among diehard Honda fans. So backing off and taking the long view, while interest here is relatively high, across the motorcycle buying public, I think it will remain a very niche market. The traditional V-twinners will shun it as will the disappointed ST fans. The only demographic left is us pioneers

I think Honda has an uphill fight with this model and Honda historically has little patience for products that don't perform well on the showroom floor. They don't hesitate to orphan the slow starters.

It will be an interesting journey however it proceeds.

 

[bob]

Don't miss the point that there are a lot of V-twin riders here now riding the CTX1300, and liking it a lot. I agree that a lot of ST and s-t riders will shun it, but simply because they really want an upgraded ST and didn't get one the last few years. Luxury touring riders will come on over for a time. Some will stay on the CTX due to it being lighter and having just enough of what they want or can easily add. Others will try it for a time and go back due to not having enough of the comforts they are used to. It really is a unique bike and, like many other bikes, will have those who decide it's a good one and those who don't. I see more are liking it now than did last year, and that's a very good thing.

 

[payson]

My thought is the only thing they missed here was the price. Think it will be a great fit for my needs. It will allow for a non v twin option for a light tourer. Only bike that I can think of in that category.

Would be good long term as it will lead to Gold Wing sales.

Address the price, keep it competitive with other middle weight cruisers / light tourers and more accessible than sport tourers and wait for sales to increase. They would own the segment that they created. The goal of most manufactures.

 

[csdexter]

(...)
The second model would be the touring version (...) ELECTRONIC CRUISE CONTROL! I think that would be worth a $2,000 premium (...)

Ain't gonna happen. When was the last time you saw a Japanese motorcycle switch from cable throttle to fly-by-wire mid-model?

The R&D involved is a lot more than 2000USD and it's not going to happen, that's not how Japanese manufacturers work. They design something once and then use it for many years. Minor changes (of looks) or fine tuning the power curve -- yes; major changes -- no.

I've said it before: the reason H-D can give you cruise for 300USD is they designed for/with it from the very beginning. They design the bike with all of the stuff on it from the onset but they cannot sell it like that because not even die-hard fans would be able to foot the bill. So, they sell the stripped down version + various bolt-on options which are much easier to swallow price-wise.

In the CTX's case, the whole powerplant is a straight copy/paste from the ST1300 and that one didn't have fly-by-wire.

 

[TennesseeSmith]

I won't be surprised if Honda skips a year. Someone said they saw evidence of a 2015 model at a show. But none of the dealers have heard of it and it doesn't show on the website.

The market for large bikes is very different from the market for cars. Honda can spend millions to update the Accord and be assured of enough sales to get their money back quickly. Bikes don't sell enough units to pay for the R&D every few years.

Car manufacturers have learned to make multiple models on the same production lines. They like to minimize inventory and keep the units flowing at a pace that matches sales. This does not work well with bikes. It costs a lot of money to retool the production lines for the various models. It's far cheaper to make a large batch of bikes every two or three years.

Just because Honda still sells the 2012 version of the ST1300 does not necessarily mean they are done with the model. If there is no 2015 CTX1300, it does not mean the bike is finished.

I think csdexter is right about the cruise control. It would be too expensive. It's the same reason we won't see an automatic transmission or even a sixth gear.

 

[Miks]

Although it is the same architecture, the F6B uses just about a GL1800 engine/powertrain....and guess what folks....the 2015 HAS CRUISE control.

You don't have to go to a fly by wire to have cruise control, ask any car owner with a vehicle pre 2011 if they have cruise, and you can find a servo with a cable operated cruise.

I can buy a Rostra electric cruise control system for under $220 on E-bay, it just takes more surgery to install.

I fly a corporate ship, so while on the ground, I visit a lot of dealers and 95% + get wound up when you talk about cruise control on the pre-2015 F6B...most have a 2013 sitting on the showroom - couldn't sell the bike and have told the Honda rep about this!

Ok - let me ask you this question.

FJR 1300 - pre 2014 cable throttle, no cruise. What happened? Yamaha installed it, so explain to me why they can read Japanese and do it, but Honda can't?

Since I work in the automotive industry, I can tell you with 100% accuracy, that model changes are more and more frequent. It used to be a four year production cycle for model changes and updates. About mid-cycle they would freshen up the car with a plastic fascia change until the new model would be introduced.

Most of the design for tooling and manufacturing is computer driven, KIA and Hyundai are going to a 2.5 year redesign of all models...watch what Hyundai comes out with in the next two years, very aggressive and completely new vehicles over the ENTIRE lineup.

Tooling cost is a major determinant in automotive design, but gaining market share is what this is all about. We live in an instant society, everyone wants something different all the time, something new, something fresh and the way you sell more cars is to lower the cycle times of the vehicles.

What is most interesting, is that the manufacturers are scratching their heads on how to sell motorized vehicles to the millenials. This group doesn't have a lot of interest in cars, motorcycles, as they see it as a means to an end and would rather play on computers all day. That is why Harley has re-focused it's brand on female riders...not only is it 50% of the population, but getting the millenials interested has been a waste of money.

 

[Miks]

I am going to stick with my popularity rule here, and agree that the bike is a polarizing bike, either you like it or you can't figure it out. But the more people see this bike, and consider mine looks like a routing bike with the tall windshield and top-box, it draws attention.

I have owned Harley's that didn't have this type of attention! My Street Glide was given a custom look, but I have never had the bike parked in the driveway and someone driving by stop, park the car on the street, and walk over to have a look at it...the CTX managed that.

Baggers are the market for bikes right now, a bagger is a more practical bike than a custom, but it isn't a full blown touring bike. That is the market, that is what the buyers are looking for, and Honda blew it with the marketing and dealer training. When I first saw the CTX, the dealer sort of watched me sit on the bike, didn't really know what it was but that it had the ST1300 engine/transmission, and couldn't tell me about the bike.

Once you know how to sell benefits and features...which is what it is all about, I think more people would be intrigued by the bike.

Honda Worldwide | CTX | Comfort Technology Revealed

Someone made the comment about a price point, and I agree that Honda didn't get that part right, as now with the $3,000 rebates, seems like the bike is flying off the shelf. My question is why did the CTX 700 sell ok then? That may be the angle, since most dealers don't know the road to the sale. How does that work?

But the more the bike is on the road, people want to know what it is and I think these types will visit the showroom and want one. The bike DOES fit the niche, is very comfortable, and is a practical bike. I think there have been a few bikers who have read the reviews on-line, went to the dealer, and they didn't have one so they purchased a comparable cruiser.

A perfect example is my college roomate. He is IN the market for a bike, and I sent him some links about the CTX 1300. We went to the dealer...not one on display, so he is taken over to the Victory lineup. He ended up ordering an Indian Dark Horse, but I took him to the airport hanger a few days later and showed him my CTX 1300. The guy was going Ape-nuts over the bike, especially after he sat on it and felt the COMFORT of the bike. His Indian is $16,900 without bags, windshield, no radio, etc....in fact, he has to buy a rear seat for the bike.

I sold him the CTX in less than 5 minutes, but it was too late, he already had a nonrefundable $1,000 deposit on his Indian. This is a 51 year old ex-BMW K1200Gt owner, his previous bike was a Yamaha V-Max.

 

[Springer]

Don't miss the point that there are a lot of V-twin riders here now riding the CTX1300, and liking it a lot.

I don't disagree at all, but would counter that over the years there have been precious few alternatives to V-twin powerplants in the cruiser market that were reliable enough and inexpensive enough to be accessible to the poor man (and woman) in the street.

(Such as myself)

Although I've owned my fair share of V-twins over the last 50 years, the only V-Twin I truly loved was the 1854cc in my Yamaha Stratoliner. The reason I loved it? Because (aside from its never-ending throttle) it was almost as well balanced and smooth running as my Goldwing's flat 6.

Given a viable choice, I'd have stayed with inline or multiple cylinder V configurations my entire life.

And that brings us to the CTX...:smileygarden_de_ban

 

[csdexter]

Although it is the same architecture, the F6B uses just about a GL1800 engine/powertrain....and guess what folks....the 2015 HAS CRUISE control.

True, because they simply put it back (the normal Goldwing had it) as opposed to adding it anew.

You don't have to go to a fly by wire to have cruise control, ask any car owner with a vehicle pre 2011 if they have cruise, and you can find a servo with a cable operated cruise.

True again, I rode an XVZ1300TF before the CTX and it had vacuum-actuated cruise control -- but the bike was designed with it from the start. If you compare the XVZ1300TF with the -TD (aka Tour Deluxe), it's the same bike but stripped down including no cruise.
Now if the Tour Deluxe would have been the first model to hit the market and only after that they introduced the Venture, you'd have had the same situation as with H-D: the cruise would've been a low-cost bolt-on option.

I can buy a Rostra electric cruise control system for under $220 on E-bay, it just takes more surgery to install.

220USD is the price of the kit, does not include labor and, most important, does not include the cost and hassle of re-certifying and type-approving the whole vehicle all over again -- both with the local authorities and with the manufacturer's internal safety standards.

Since in the US, on a normal day, a cop won't pull you over to check that nothing was modified on your bike (thus invalidating type approval); it appears very easy and straightforward for you to install things on the bike and make modifications.
But the manufacturer doesn't get that kind of free pass -- every single change incurs a snowball-like cost, the total of which is bigger the later the change is introduced in the R&D process.


So, to cut it short: it's is technically possible and doable to add cruise control to the CTX1300 for the end user. It is not feasible for Honda at this stage as the knock-on effect of the involved costs would outweigh projected sales of the bike.

The EU type approval certificate for the CTX1300AE is from 2012. I don't know if the corresponding information is publicly available for the US as well for comparison, but is shows that the R&D was basically done and complete that early. This may mean it's about time to reopen the files and R&D new stuff in (such as cruise) or that it's a closed chapter. Time will tell.

 

[Miks]

Lets take a look at what the North American market proved.

Not so fast Pilgrim! The reason they didn't install it on the F6B, was because the valve timing and more importantly, the FUEL mapping was so different, they had to put the money in to redesign the bikes cruise because of this. Ask your Honda dealer, if they don't have any idea, go to corporate, they will EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU!

Second, the FJR 1300 did indeed to go a throttle by wire, so my point is this - THEY CAN modify from a cable, Yamaha obviously did...get it! That being said, they DIDN'T increase the price either, it was the second year of the electronic cruise control coupled with the traction control that made the mod...see previous response...mapping had to be changed, it now has dual mode for sport, our touring...read brochure please.

Also, it was the second year that they added the electronic suspension, which is a $1,000 option. Something you would think Honda could do if they wanted to. It all gets to a higher price point, but the fact is IT IS ALL POSSIBLE, and IS THE EXPECTATION of the buyer.

When you stop and consider the fact Honda makes a robot that can walk, wouldn't you think they can put some technology that is expected into a motorcycle? The sport touring bike never has been popular in the US, although Europe loves them, and it is the type of roads they have. In the US, we like to get on bikes, lay back and just cruise along with these types of bikes....which tells me the CTX 1300 should be a better seller. With the bars and comfort, it just wants to be out on the open road, and if you want, you can leave your Harley friends in the dust!

 

[payson]

What is most interesting, is that the manufacturers are scratching their heads on how to sell motorized vehicles to the millenials. This group doesn't have a lot of interest in cars, motorcycles, as they see it as a means to an end and would rather play on computers all day. That is why Harley has re-focused it's brand on female riders...not only is it 50% of the population, but getting the millenials interested has been a waste of money.

Interesting observation. Last night I saw a commercial clearly geared towards melinials, (Still scratching my head why it was on Fox News on a Saturday night) where Enterprise rental rents a car by the hour. 1, 12, 24, 72, they don't care. Includes fuel, insurance, everything.

Clearly the concept of "transportation" is changing among generations.

 

[Miks]

Payson,

I think it gets down to...FOX news, probably the parents have it on and since the millennial generation lives at home longer than my kids were ever going to be allowed, this is probably why.

Seriously though, General Motors has the demographic data that shows the baby boomers are still the huge market for vehicle sales. They still trump every other generation, probably because some of them remember the bad old days of travel, and therefore they are buying new vehicles at an average of less than 2.7 years between vehicles.

The millennial generation thinks in terms that everything is a right, therefore they shouldn't make any money on me. If you go to tech blogs, this is all the discussion is about, how access to free apps and everything else under the sun should not be a profit deal. But, they really don't care what vehicle it is, performance or otherwise, as long as it doesn't hurt the environment, they like it.

So General Motors is SURE they aren't going to be buying any of their Corvette's, and most are happy not owning a car...they can take mass transportation without the hassle. However, most expect to inherit their parents car, so it's no big deal. Motorcycles are in the same game, in that to find a good motocross racer is very difficult. Team managers say that most of the older motocross tracks are closing, because there isn't enough interest in that type of riding. There are a few, but the talent pool is lean.

 

[csdexter]

Not so fast Pilgrim! The reason they didn't install it on the F6B, was because the valve timing and more importantly, the FUEL mapping was so different, they had to put the money in to redesign the bikes cruise because of this. Ask your Honda dealer, if they don't have any idea, go to corporate, they will EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU!

I see no connection between the power curve of an engine (influenced by valve timing and fuel trim) and the design of a cruise control system.

Also, bear in mind Honda is many separate companies. The robot people do not make motorbikes and the people who designed the CTX don't regularly meet with the ones who made the Civic and so on.

 

[Jimmytootall]

ctx 2015

Just a quick note, all 3 dealers within 20 min. to 3 hours away from me have a new 2014 ctx 1300 in stock so it supports what is in this thread information...In British Columbia our spring is early so I have been out riding already.. Gotta say I forgot over the winter how awesome this bike is. I put 12,600 kilometers on my ctx last year and coming from a 09 st1300 the only thing I miss is the electric windshield.. I love this bike, absolutely love the torque it has, no down shifting just twist the throttle and listen to the bikes behind you dropping a gear in attempt to catch up...The entire ctx technology Comfort/technology/xperience is typical Honda they pave the way and it takes the world some time to catch up...Do you remember when they introduced the st1100 all negative feedback and then everyone was playing catch up. The first 4 years of the FJR were overheating wire burning issues. That is what happens when you don't have the time to plan/engineer it out properly...I love my ctx..2 days ago it was parked outside the coffee shop and a guy stopped and blocked the road with his car as he stood in awe...:smileygarden_de_ban cheers Jim

 

[Bronson]

I think that if there were going to be a 2015 CTX 1300 it would have been announced by now and we would have seen it on Honda's website.


I also think it's obvious they priced it above what the projected sales volume they thought sales would have been and that's why we see the huge Bonus Bucks to help move inventory.


Once inventory lowers to a certain level they may offer a 2016 model with no changes except color and new VIN numbers.


OR if sale volume doesn't reach their goal they could drop the model completely from their line up, at least here in the USA. They could continue it in other countries like Canada and Europe.


Just my 2 cents

 

[sleepngbear]

I think that if there were going to be a 2015 CTX 1300 it would have been announced by now and we would have seen it on Honda's website.


I also think it's obvious they priced it above what the projected sales volume they thought sales would have been and that's why we see the huge Bonus Bucks to help move inventory.


Once inventory lowers to a certain level they may offer a 2016 model with no changes except color and new VIN numbers.


OR if sale volume doesn't reach their goal they could drop the model completely from their line up, at least here in the USA. They could continue it in other countries like Canada and Europe.


Just my 2 cents

The 2014 did come out relatively late in the model year, too, at least considering that most manufacturers introduce new models in September or October of the previous calendar year. So while it is unusual to just skip a model year, I can understand why they might in this case. And it's not unheard of with Honda.