[richroiz]

Thought I would pass this on ...
I was at one time interested in the Dynojet Power Commander for the CTX1300 . My thought was to pick up a few ponies .
Fortunately I had worked with the dynoject folks in Los Vegas before .
One of the folks in the lab there did some research and mentioned that they had done some standard performance runs and in fact had a model with maps for the CTX1300
His take on the purchase was "dont bother" . Apparently Honda tunes and maps their machines very efficiently and there is no room for O2 optimizing or remapping.
American versions have different valve setups, compression ratios and torque mapping than the European versions, so if you think retuning the American CTX might get closer to those models, perhaps a rethink and some research may save you a few bucks.

 

[sleepngbear]

Thought I would pass this on ...
... His take on the purchase was "dont bother" . Apparently Honda tunes and maps their machines very efficiently and there is no room for O2 optimizing or remapping.

In my experience, this is not altogether true. Honda (as most other manufacturers) usually tune these machines decidedly on the lean side to comply with emissions standards. While a Power Commander and other similar fuel manager modules won't necessarily boost HP and torque, they can frequently make a bike more responsive and generally more 'rideable'. A Cobra FI2000 made a night-and-day difference on my VTX1800, and I've heard similar stories from owners of all makes of bikes many, many times. Factories usually tune these things as lean as they possibly can and still be rideable and without causing engine damage.

Your contact person at Dynojet was partially correct in that it's not worth the purchase of a fuel manager if you're looking for a power gain -- i.e., they don't work like ECU map upgrades on car and truck engines, mostly because the manufacturers do have ignition timings and other stuff like that optimized for the other engine hardware. But there are other benefits to be had, especially if you're running an after-market intake and/or exhaust.

 

[csdexter]

Also, I very highly doubt there's anything mechanically different between the US and EU models in the engine. It wasn't even back in the carburetor days, the carb jets/needles were different EU/US, but the engine was the same.

Otherwise, I agree with sleepngbear: most add-on boxes improve something, not necessarily always the power. For example, at a minimum, it could get rid of the touchy throttle response off-idle ;-)

 

[sleepngbear]

... most add-on boxes improve something, not necessarily always the power. For example, at a minimum, it could get rid of the touchy throttle response off-idle ;-)

^^^ Exactly. On my VTX, the Cobra unit completely eliminated a nasty low-end surging problem. The surge actually led people to complain about the bike having a jerky throttle, similar to what many have observed with the CTX. It wasn't really an overly-sensitive throttle (people at the time actually said it was because the 1800 was too much engine for the bike), it was because of a poorly tuned fuel map (too lean). All of which makes me wonder if a fuel manager might be of some benefit on the CTX even in stock trim -- that is, if we could find one that works on it. :350x700px-LL-66dd6d

 

[Hoosierman]

Does COBRA make a FI2000 for the CTX?? I had one on my 2011 FURY that I had and I think it really helped the throttle response.

^^^ Exactly. On my VTX, the Cobra unit completely eliminated a nasty low-end surging problem. The surge actually led people to complain about the bike having a jerky throttle, similar to what many have observed with the CTX. It wasn't really an overly-sensitive throttle (people at the time actually said it was because the 1800 was too much engine for the bike), it was because of a poorly tuned fuel map (too lean). All of which makes me wonder if a fuel manager might be of some benefit on the CTX even in stock trim -- that is, if we could find one that works on it. :350x700px-LL-66dd6d

 

[sleepngbear]

Does COBRA make a FI2000 for the CTX?? I had one on my 2011 FURY that I had and I think it really helped the throttle response.

Unfortunately, I don't think so -- I don't see one listed for the CTX or the ST. These used a closed-loop system, which is different from what's on the VTX's and Shadows and those breeds. Which is too bad, because the FI2000 was a pretty easy install.

The only thing I've seen for the ST that might possibly work on the CTX is a Bazzaz fuel controller: Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller Honda ST1300 2002-2013 - RevZilla. Not a bad price, but it would probably require a lot of experimenting to get it right, as the CTX has all different internal engine components and ECU mappings than the ST (pistons, valves, injectors, etc). But I see no reason why it couldn't be made to work.

 

[Hoosierman]

I think I will wait to see if COBRA will come out with something. I don't want to spend a lot of money and have to do a bunch of experimenting to get it set right.

Unfortunately, I don't think so -- I don't see one listed for the CTX or the ST. These used a closed-loop system, which is different from what's on the VTX's and Shadows and those breeds. Which is too bad, because the FI2000 was a pretty easy install.

The only thing I've seen for the ST that might possibly work on the CTX is a Bazzaz fuel controller: Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller Honda ST1300 2002-2013 - RevZilla. Not a bad price, but it would probably require a lot of experimenting to get it right, as the CTX has all different internal engine components and ECU mappings than the ST (pistons, valves, injectors, etc). But I see no reason why it couldn't be made to work.

 

[richroiz]

Also, I very highly doubt there's anything mechanically different between the US and EU models in the engine. It wasn't even back in the carburetor days, the carb jets/needles were different EU/US, but the engine was the same.

Otherwise, I agree with sleepngbear: most add-on boxes improve something, not necessarily always the power. For example, at a minimum, it could get rid of the touchy throttle response off-idle ;-)

This ticks me off. the dealer quoted higher HP and torque when I compared CTX to F6B . After buying the CTX1300 believing I was getting a 115HP machine, I took it back next day and thats the answer I got on the "mistake" . When will I stop trusting sales?

 

[bob]

Keep in mind that HP does not tell the whole story. In fact, relying on high HP is deceptive and unreliable. It's the torque you really need to know about. While the F6B is higher in both torque and HP it is also a heavier machine. The CTX, while using the same engine as the ST (where the dealer mistakenly took his info from), has very different tuning to bring torque and HP much lower than the ST. I found that the CTX has higher torque and HP than the ST at lower than 5000 rpm, the same at that rpm, and then the ST goes higher at over 5000 rpm. Since I never get past 4500 rpm, and rarely get past 3700 rpm, I'm running the CTX in the best power range for this set up. I almost never ran my ST1100 at over 4500 rpm and specs are similar on that to the ST1300... meaning I never reached the best power range on that bike. I have no complaints about the power of this bike. I don't expect it to run like a sport bike or a S-T bike so never run up the rpm beyond where the power is to be found on it.

 

[TennesseeSmith]

Coming from the Sport/Touring bikes, I've noticed the lower power at the higher RPMs. I've bounced it off the rev limiter a couple of times. But I really don't need to be riding in that range anymore.

For riding the highways, touring on the backroads, and cruising around town these are the best bikes I've ever owned.

I'm very happy with the power I get from my CTX1300s. One thing I've noticed is that the red one rides a lot nicer than the blue one. I think it's because of the top box on the blue bike. I will ride it without the box and see if the ride improves.

 

[richroiz]

I found that the CTX has higher torque and HP than the ST at lower than 5000 rpm, the same at that rpm, and then the ST goes higher at over 5000 rpm. Since I never get past 4500 rpm, and rarely get past 3700 rpm, I'm running the CTX in the best power range for this set up. I almost never ran my ST1100 at over 4500 rpm....

True. I agree. Here is where the discussion with dynojet went. it was a exploration into the familiar ST engine changes and its intended retuning..
as a result..i concluded I have nothing more to ask for in torque at most speeds and conditions anyway, and smile at the gas pump.

Back to the purpose of starting this thread. the dynojet "advantage" warrants some thought on exactly what improvement you get for the CTX in contrast to other bikes. (typically a more optimal torque band with richer mixture/ratios which adds power at some bands) I didn't see the mixture curves, but would be happy to try to get them from dynojet. the indication was there was little room for improvement. The general thought was that the tuning was optimal.... and Honda was pretty good at that. it seems, looking at some torque curves, to be pretty good already. I personally asked myself "so what exactly do I want to improve?" answer... not much.

 

[Kookopelli]

Power Commander V

Well, we will see how it works and if there is anything to gain...Ibought one today and whould have it installed later this week. Will post up thoughts afterwards.

 

[Hoosierman]

Okay. Sounds good, please do. I'm very interested in getting one my self. Thanks for being the guinea pig on this one. Do u have a K&N air filter on your CTX?

Well, we will see how it works and if there is anything to gain...Ibought one today and whould have it installed later this week. Will post up thoughts afterwards.

 

[Kookopelli]

Okay. Sounds good, please do. I'm very interested in getting one my self. Thanks for being the guinea pig on this one. Do u have a K&N air filter on your CTX?

No K&N filter yet. The power commander is set up for stock pipes and stock filter, but I am sure they will soon create a map for stock pipes with K&N filter and I will install it then. I will soon be removing the top shelter to do some other work and at that time will probably put in a K&N filter.

 

[Hoosierman]

Okay man... Just keep me posted how it works out for you. :smiley-happy0034:

No K&N filter yet. The power commander is set up for stock pipes and stock filter, but I am sure they will soon create a map for stock pipes with K&N filter and I will install it then. I will soon be removing the top shelter to do some other work and at that time will probably put in a K&N filter.

 

[Kookopelli]

Well guys, I put the Power Commander 5 on mine yesterday and I have to say that I am pretty sure it increased the power and acceleration by at least 10 to 15%. It used to have a steady pull right up to the redline, but now seems to have a boost in pull around 4000 RPM. You can really feel it in first and second gears. The bike in general just feels a lot more peppier like you would want it to be.

A real added bonus is that all the throttle herky-jerkiness is gone. The thing is much more rideable now than it was stock. I think it was well worth the investment and the time it took to put it in because of that alone.

I am going to post a writeup today on this and two other electrical mods I did at the same time while I had the bike all apart. You sure have to take a lot of things off to get under the top shelter, which is where all the good stuff happens. After doing that and then realizing how much more has to come apart just to change the air filter, I don't plan on switching to a K&N filter any time soon. Besides all the plastic that has to be removed, every connector, relay, vacuum hose and anything else that sits under the top shelter has to be removed to get the top off the airbox. It would be an all-day project. What the ****, Honda?

 

[Kookopelli]

I tried to edit the above message to add this, but you have to do that within 10 minutes of posting to edit a message. So...

Also, the numbers I am seeing displayed for instantanious MPG while at a steady cruise seem to be quite a bit higher than I was seeing from the stock setup. I keep very accurate records of my gas mileage and other things, so it will be interesting to see if the mileage actually goes up. I currently have almost 10K on the bike and the average fuel mileage over that time is 44.19. I ride kind of frisky and often do full throttle squirts up to highway speeds, so I don't think that is too bad. I am sure some of you guys get a lot better, but for the way I ride I am happy.

 

[bob]

I guess I'm just way conservative. I never ever see 4000 rpm unless I am on the super slab, and only just there at that time. Even accelerating around town here I rarely get past 3200 rpm even with brisk (for me) acceleration. So the jerky throttle resolve might be good for me, though I've pretty much eliminated that with the CB and experience. But any power boost over 4000 rpm would be wasted on me. Good for those who run at those rpm ranges though. I don't have so many miles but in the warmer temps up here, like over 70*F, I've been getting 52-54 instant mpg for highway and 44-47 average mpg with lots of city riding. Of course with the colder temps we now have (25-35*F average high temps) those numbers are much lower.

 

[Kookopelli]

It is kind of like the difference between a V-6 and a V-8 automobile. The V-6 will do the trick, but the V-8 is just a little more adept at it and is more fun when you want to play.

The mileage numbers I quoted are actual mileage computed by dividing the miles driven between fill-ups and the gallons used to fill it up. I keep a log and it is different for each fill-up because of the different styles of riding that was done in between...I get better numbers when on a trip and cruising at mostly steady speeds than I do around town. But my log also computes overall average MPG since I have had the bike.

I have tried several times to upload my spreadsheet as an excel file and as a pdf but this crazy site won't let me upload the file as an attachment and when I make an 11x17 pdf of it, they tell me it exceeds the limit of 19.5 KB. How the heck can I make a pdf that small? It is only 126 KB and I thought that was pretty small.

 

[Hoosierman]

So... Based on your experience you think it's worth the money to get one I take it? If you don't mind me asking... What did it set you back?? Did you have it installed, or did you do it your self? Also... Where did you get yours at?