[cjm76]

I was just reading the comments about ABS and traction control in the thread about the self-canceling turn signals (which I find more bother then they are worth), and thought I would post the results of my testing of the ABS and TC.

I have always loved ABS on my cars - and once in a while will stomp on the brakes just to feel the ABS work - just for grins (I know... I need a life). But I have never had ABS on a bike till now, so the other day I was riding home from the office in a driving rain storm and thought I would give the CTX1300's ABS a little test in what I assumed would be "easy" environment.

I picked a straight stretch of road with no traffic, and I was moving at about 25mph. I jumped on the both brakes in as close to a "panic" move as I could simulate without actually being paniced, and I got a nice smooth, straight stop with no lock-up - and NO ABS modulation! My first thought was that I must not have been breaking as hard as I thought I was. My next thought was (again) how amazing these brakes are - I have never had a bike with such good brakes... But I had to try again. So once more I got on the breaks as hard as I could, and I got one single "blip" of ABS modulation. So now I am thinking that it is nice that the ABS works, but is it even necessary on the CTX1300... I then tried a stop using only the back brake (trying for the dreaded back wheel lock-up), and I again got a good, no lock-up stop, and all of 2 or 3 blips of the ABS modulation.

With the ABS tested, I thought that I would see if I could get the TC to kick in. Now this is a feature that I just don't get - especially with how the CTX1300's engine has been de-tuned... But nonetheless, I wanted to see it work. So I pulled away from a stop with the engine reving and slipping the clutch to get the wheel to spin - and sure enough the TC shut the spin down. BUT, not before the back end started to come around a little. I knew what to expect and was ready. If even that much spin occurred without you expecting it, I could imagine it would be possible to loose control (at least on wet pavement or sand).

So my final thoughts: the CTX1300 has great breaks - even without ABS. TC, meh...

 

[shane]

Awesome post! I had a chance to try out the TC just today. I had left my bike outside and it started to rain so I went out to put it in the shed. My shed is on a little hill, and there is a ramp leading into the doorway. Ramp is about 5 feet long, and about a foot and a half above the ground at the tall end. Well, the rain made the ramp slippery, and just as I was getting the motorcycle's back tire up near the top, I felt the back end slip about two inches to the right and the T/C light blinked on, and at that moment, when I had nearly a thousand pounds of combined bike/rider weight so close to crashing in my doorway... I was VERY happy to know that the back wheel stopped turning before disaster struck. I can't wait to share this story with my brother, who refers to T/C on a motorcycle as the "B!tch Switch" I'd like to see someone else handle that situation without traction control... but not with MY bike!

 

[csdexter]

In control system theory, that's probably the most debated issue for things that are supposed to prevent: should they prevent the event from happening altogether or should they instead minimize the consequences?

If the TC on the bike would work in such a way that you never ever get any wheel slip, you would never ever get any warning and as a result you'd ride more and more reckless ;-)

 

[sleepngbear]

Now this is a feature that I just don't get - especially with how the CTX1300's engine has been de-tuned....

Nice post -- great info. It's always good to know how your machine is going to respond in emergency situations, so I don't think such antics are a waste of time at all.

Just want to point it, though, that while the 1300 in the CTX has less max HP and torque than its ST brother, it actually has more torque in the lower RPMs to make it more cruiser-like, which could get you into just as much trouble as the ST with its bigger numbers.

 

[tbonesullivan]

This really makes it hard to choose between the ABS/TC and non ABS/TC versions. As with the Goldwing models, they never seem to make models that I would like. with the GL1800 you have to get the damned NAVI system that costs a ton before you can get the ABS. I'd rather NOT have the Navi given the cost and lack of upgradeability.

 

[bob]

... Now this is a feature that I just don't get - especially with how the CTX1300's engine has been de-tuned...

I mentioned this on the ST-Owners forum, and I think here. I found dyno charts for both the ST and CTX 1300s and found that the CTX has higher HP and torque below 5000 rpm, they are the same at 5000 rpm, and the ST is higher in both above 5000 rpm. Just because the MAX numbers are lower on the CTX, keep in mind what rpm you have to get to to get the higher numbers on the ST. Most riders will not ride their engines at a high enough rpm normally or at normal road speeds, especially in town or near town, to come close to seeing any advantage. That is, unless you normally rev your engine at high rpm at lower speeds (I don't know many who do).
I never regularly reached 5000 rpm on my ST1100, don't think I ever even made it there except when I wasn't paying attention to what gear I was in.

Some journalists are now taking to calling this engine as RE-tuned rather than de-tuned since they now realize how much more power there is in the lower rpm range.

 

[cjm76]

This really makes it hard to choose between the ABS/TC and non ABS/TC versions.

Please do not let my "review" stop you from getting the Deluxe model. I bought the Deluxe because of the ABS (was not interested in the sound system and did not care about TC). In the future you will never regret spending the extra money for the Deluxe, but you might regret not having ABS and even TC in the "one in a million" chance where it is really needed. In fact, I know myself well enough to know that I would be bothered by having the "blank" buttons on the dash for the sound system if I had gotten the Standard. It is better to have it and not use it, then not have it at all.

 

[cjm76]

...Some journalists are now taking to calling this engine as RE-tuned rather than de-tuned since they now realize how much more power there is in the lower rpm range.

Bob and Ed,

I was using the term "de-tuned" because others have used it. I really do not have much to compare with. I tend to like "neck snapping" acceleration, and I guess I was expecting a bit more from the CTX1300 - though I am in no way disappointed with this bike.

I am a bit concerned with off the line torque though, it seems like I get some "lugging" or "clattering" or whatever you want to call it if I pull away from a stop at anything much below 3000 rpm - even when I am taking it easy - and even when I am alone on the bike.

If you can point me in the direction of the HP/Torque curves that you have seen for the ST1300/CTX1300, I would really appreciate it.

 

[bob]

The HP/torque curve for the CTX1300 is at the bottom of the review from Rider Magazine HERE. Really don't know why they didn't start the measure at 2000 rpm as it would show more realistically for the 2000-3000 range. Kind of shows the sport or sport touring mentality of these people. Seems they had a hard time wrapping their heads around low rpm power.

The HP/torque curve for a ST-Owners member ST1300 were posted in 2008 on that forum HERE.
Don't know if you are able to see the photo of the chart so...

Let me know if there is a problem seeing this image.

 

[tbonesullivan]

That is kind of maddening that they started at 3000. usually you'd want to see it from at least 2000, which is for most parts where power bands start. On a bike like the CTX1300 you usually aren't going to be going above 3000 rpm much until you're on the highway, so the 2000-3000 band is important.

 

[sleepngbear]

Yeah, it would be nice to see from 2k up, but what's more important are the HP and torque peaks and the relatively flat torque curve compared to the ST's peaks.

 

[tbonesullivan]

Definitely is nice to see more pull on the low end. Now if only they had paired it with a 6 speed transmission. I get the feeling that the gearbox is most likely the exact same one from the ST1300, maybe with a different final reduction. Honda overall seems to be almost anti-sixth gear. I mean, if the motorcycle is designed that way, there really isn't a need for a 6th gear, but it would be nice to have a 6th gear to shift up into once you get up to speed on the highway to keep revs down.

I know with the CB1100 in the second year they changed to a 6 speed transmission.

Of course, seeing as the GL1800 is still 5 speed, I wouldn't count on a 6 speed ctx1300.

 

[sleepngbear]

I compared speeds and RPMs either a guy over on the ST forum, and it looks like we've got the same gear set and final drive as the ST1300. I surely wouldn't mind a 6th gear on this bike, but the motor does have enough legs that 5th isn't too bad on the highway -- the real beauty is when it will jump from 60 to 80 in a flash without needing to downshift.

 

[tbonesullivan]

I compared speeds and RPMs either a guy over on the ST forum, and it looks like we've got the same gear set and final drive as the ST1300. I surely wouldn't mind a 6th gear on this bike, but the motor does have enough legs that 5th isn't too bad on the highway -- the real beauty is when it will jump from 60 to 80 in a flash without needing to downshift.

exactly. the 6th gear on H-D motorcycles is REALLY tall, and usually a downshift is required if you want to pass someone. I guess it's a different design philosophy or something.

Also, it's a proven and reliable setup.

 

[GermanMike]

Hi guys,

we've been on a ride yesterday, which should have been without rain (as far as the forecast showed)

Now, with our "good weather" clothes, we came into some pretty heavy rain showers. I wanted to get out of there as fast as possible and, you can guess, pulled the throttle way to hard for the road conditions.

All I can say: TCS saved us from a longer hospital visit.

I only felt a little "swing" of the rear and could see the TCS control blinking and that's all. :smileygarden_de_ban
Did I mention that I'm to old for this??

 

[flytrap]

Yesterday during a long ride I found myself in large, empty parking lot with a gravel surface. So...I did the TC test also. I did some low gear "burn outs" and power cornering. I managed to get the TC light to blink a bunch of times but never felt the back end lose its line. I guess that means that TC works. IMHO everyone should do this test on a sketchy surface just to get the feel of things.

 

[ledany]

For the first time ever yesterday I saw the TCS signal blink on a bike. The road was wet but the rain had stopped some time ago, I was not riding fast (in fact, I was slow) nor throttled furiously but the tyre slipped a bit. 200/50R/17 Dunlop, brand new of course, on a straight road

My problem is that I ride my bike 360 days/year :350x700px-LL-66dd6d

 

[sleepngbear]

For the first time ever yesterday I saw the TCS signal blink on a bike. The road was wet but the rain had stopped some time ago, I was not riding fast (in fact, I was slow) nor throttled furiously but the tyre slipped a bit. 200/50R/17 Dunlop, brand new of course, on a straight road

My problem is that I ride my bike 360 days/year :350x700px-LL-66dd6d

Well first off, I fail to see how that's a problem.

Second, it's exactly for guys like you that TCS is most useful. :wink:

 

[coneye]

For the first time ever yesterday I saw the TCS signal blink on a bike. The road was wet but the rain had stopped some time ago, I was not riding fast (in fact, I was slow) nor throttled furiously but the tyre slipped a bit. 200/50R/17 Dunlop, brand new of course, on a straight road

My problem is that I ride my bike 360 days/year

Well first off, I fail to see how that's a problem.

Second, it's exactly for guys like you that TCS is most useful.

ABSOLUTLY . correct ,